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69 clusters · 179 sources · 118 days · First seen 4 months ago · Last updated 2 days ago

Turkey automotive market trends and second-hand volatility

Overview

The contraction in Turkey’s automotive market has extended into late summer, impacting fiscal revenues and driving aggressive pricing strategies. In July, Special Consumption Tax (ÖTV) revenues fell by 2.55% year-on-year, with collections for the first seven months of 2026 reaching only about 44% of the annual target.

Following a 20.28% decline in sales during August, manufacturers launched major promotional campaigns in September 2026 to stimulate demand. Brands including Skoda, Opel, Peugeot, Suzuki, MG, and Citroën are offering zero-interest credit, trade-in support, and significant cash discounts. For instance, Skoda has announced reductions of up to 975,000 TL on certain models, including the Scala Monte Carlo and Octavia mHEV hybrid. These efforts aim to counteract high financing costs and credit restrictions imposed by the Banking Regulation and Supervision Agency (BDDK).

The second-hand market is also experiencing a shift. Data from arabam.com indicates that August saw the first decline in listing prices since the start of the year, with nominal prices falling by 0.42% month-on-month and a real price decrease of 2.21% when adjusted for inflation. This downturn is attributed to attractive new vehicle campaigns and increased consumer activity in the gold market as individuals convert investments to cash. While certified pre-owned (CPO) vehicles remain a way to mitigate mechanical risks, they typically command a 4% to 5% premium over non-certified models.

Market analysts attribute these trends to tight monetary policy and limited credit access. Consumer preferences continue to shift toward SUVs, which hold a 65.5% market share in new vehicle sales.

Entities

Turkey · Renault · VavaCars · Peugeot · Volkswagen

Claims

What the coverage asserts, and how many sources carry each claim.

Coverage disagrees

Sources make claims that cannot both be true. CLSTR reports the disagreement; it does not decide who is right.

"Car sales in July 2026 declined 25.79% to 62,478 units."

vs

"July 2026 total car and light‑commercial vehicle sales in Turkey fell 25.0% year‑on‑year to 80,786 units."

The first claim asserts total car and light-commercial vehicle sales were 80,786 units, while the second claim asserts car sales alone were 62,478 units, which would imply light-commercial sales of 18

[DISPUTED] July 2026 total car and light‑commercial vehicle sales in Turkey fell 25.0% year‑on‑year to 80,786 units.
[● 10 SOURCES] The Turkish Grand National Assembly approved an amendment to the Special Consumption Tax (ÖTV) law for vehicles.
[● 10 SOURCES] The amendment makes the vehicle drive system (e.g., 4×4 vs 4×2) a factor in determining ÖTV rates.
[● 10 SOURCES] Minimum fixed ÖTV amounts were set at 100,000 Turkish lira for passenger cars and 30,000 lira for electric motorcycles.
[● 10 SOURCES] Electric motorcycles with electric motor power below 4 kW are exempt from the new ÖTV provisions.
[● 10 SOURCES] The President was given authority to increase or decrease the minimum ÖTV amounts up to tenfold or to zero.
[● 9 SOURCES] The domestic smartphone project is a collaboration between ASELSAN, Türk Telekom, and TTT İnovasyon.
[● 8 SOURCES] The first three smartphone models are scheduled for launch in the first quarter of 2027.
[● 7 SOURCES] The minimum ÖTV amounts will be indexed each year according to the revaluation rate defined in the Tax Procedure Law.
[● 7 SOURCES] The smartphone lineup will include a high-end encrypted model for public employees, an affordable model, and a premium version.
[● 7 SOURCES] The company is currently searching for a CEO to lead the project.
[● 6 SOURCES] The amendment also includes provisions for candidate‑driver status and tax exemptions for nuclear‑energy investment contracts.

Timeline

2 days ago

[BUSINESS] 4 sources
Turkey second-hand car prices see first decline of the year
Turkey's second-hand car market saw its first price decline of the year in August, with real prices dropping 2.21% due to new car campaigns and market shifts.
4 days ago

[BUSINESS] 6 sources
Automakers launch major sales campaigns in Turkey to boost market
Turkish automakers, including Skoda and Opel, are launching major September campaigns with discounts and zero-interest credit to combat a recent decline in vehicle sales and high financing costs.
7 days ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
VavaCars reports decline in Turkish used car prices
VavaCars reports that Turkish used car prices fell 0.2% in August, with annual growth trailing both inflation and foreign exchange rate increases.
11 days ago

[BUSINESS] 8 sources
Turkish automotive market sees major price discounts
Turkish automotive companies are offering major discounts to clear stock, causing significant gaps between list and dealer prices. SUV market share is rising while sedan and hatchback sales decline.
18 days ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
Turkey second-hand car market sees monthly recovery in July
Turkey's second-hand car market saw a 5% monthly increase in July, contrasting with a 25% drop in new vehicle sales. Stock durations are shortening as auction-based platforms emerge to manage price volatility.
20 days ago

[BUSINESS] 19 sources
Turkey second-hand car market faces stagnation
Turkey's second-hand car market faces stagnation due to new vehicle campaigns, high interest rates, and gold price volatility, with buyers shifting toward the 700,000-800,000 TL price range.
23 days ago

[BUSINESS] 3 sources
Turkey automotive tax revenues decline amid falling sales
Turkey's automotive tax revenues fell 2.55% in July amid a 25% drop in vehicle sales. Meanwhile, a legislative proposal for retiree tax exemptions remains under review in parliament.
about 1 month ago

[BUSINESS] 7 sources
Turkey automotive market sees 25% sales drop in July 2026
Turkey's July 2026 auto market fell 25% YoY to 80,786 units; car sales down 25.79% and light‑commercial down 22.17%. Dealers face loss budgets, SUVs lead with 65.5% share, Renault tops sales.
about 2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
Turkey's Used Car Market Grows Yet Faces Buyer Pause Over High Interest Rates
Turkey’s vehicle fleet growth fuels used‑car opportunities, but high interest rates are keeping buyers on hold and slowing sales.
about 2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 16 sources
Turkey updates ÖTV vehicle tax, adds drivetrain rule, sets minimum fees
Turkey's parliament rewrites ÖTV vehicle tax, adding drive‑system criteria, setting 100k TL for cars and 30k TL for electric motorcycles, and giving the President power to adjust rates up to ten‑fold.
about 2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
Turkey hybrid cars claim 33% market share, matching Togg EV cost
Hybrid sales in Turkey hit 145,804 units in early 2026, giving a 33.1% market share; top models consume as little as 2.8 L/100 km, and hybrid fuel costs rival Togg EV charging costs around 44,300 TL per year.
about 2 months ago

[POLITICS] 3 sources
Turkey moves toward tax‑free car program for retirees
Turkey's parliament is debating a bill to give retirees ÖTV‑free car purchases, with conditions on eligibility, resale and price limits; the draft cites many brands but is not yet law.
about 2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
Turkey Trade Ministry grants export‑processing permits to 608 firms
Turkey’s Trade Ministry issued internal processing permits to 608 firms in June 2026, plus additional sale and external‑processing permits, while cancelling 19 permits and revoking one, to strengthen export‑or‑
about 2 months ago

[POLITICS] 4 sources
Turkey's Parliament reviews tax‑exempt car list for retirees and disabled citizens
Turkey's parliament is considering a bill to grant ÖTV‑free cars to eligible retirees and disabled citizens, outlining a model list and a 2.87 million TL price cap; the proposal has not yet been debated or rat‑
about 2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 9 sources
Turkey used‑car market 2026 sees modest sales dip amid high financing costs
Turkey’s used‑car market sold 4.3 million units in H1 2026, a 1 % drop due to high loan rates, with forecasts of 8.5‑9 million annual sales; a guide lists six models for a 500 k TL budget.
about 2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 3 sources
Turkey becomes EU's third-largest market for new vehicle exports, trade hits €37bn
In 2025 Turkey became the EU's third‑largest market for new vehicles, with total automotive trade reaching €37 billion, including €18.8 bn of EU exports to Turkey and €18.2 bn of Turkish exports to the EU.
about 2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 21 sources
Turkey's vehicle registrations exceed 34.5 million in June
Turkey’s vehicle fleet surpassed 34.5 million in June, with 194,740 new registrations (motorcycles 49.4 %, cars 37.8 %) and 941,964 vehicle transfers; Renault led new car registrations.
about 2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 7 sources
Turkey moves to overhaul vehicle tax rules and clarifies ATV taxation
Turkey’s parliament adds drivetrain to vehicle ÖTV calculations and Danıştay clarifies ATV tax classification, while a retiree‑tax‑free vehicle proposal stalls.
about 2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 22 sources
Turkey’s 2026 export totals reach historic highs
Turkey’s 2026 export figures hit historic highs: grain exports $901 M, free‑zone sales $6.6 B, e‑export drives growth with $1.5 B sales, and vehicle trade with the EU reaches €37 B.
about 2 months ago

[POLITICS] 3 sources
Turkish MP Ömer Fethi Gürer proposes scrapping VAT on car repairs
Turkish CHP MP Ömer Fethi Gürer has tabled a bill to abolish VAT on vehicle maintenance, parts and related services, aiming to cut costs for owners and boost regular upkeep.
about 2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
Turkey's automotive industry awards exporters and launches a new innovation fund
Turkey's auto sector honored top exporters, launched a 75 m TL innovation fund and reported Jan‑Jun passenger‑car exports to 82 markets at $5 bn, down 5% YoY, led by France.
2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 17 sources
Turkey's first‑half 2026 exports hit $136.6 billion, with shipbuilding, food and textiles driving growth
Turkey's H1 2026 exports rose 3.6% to $136.6 billion, led by Istanbul, with shipbuilding, food and textile sectors showing mixed results and free zones delivering half of export volume.
2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 29 sources
Turkey’s June 2026 Export Surge and Revised Import Regime Boost Trade
June 2026 Turkish exports jumped 21.8 % to $25 bn, imports rose 23.1 %; new import regime eases duties on inputs. Service export up 3.2 % to $122 bn, distant‑country exports hit $14.3 bn, auto export fell 5 %.
2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 16 sources
Turkey posts $41.5 bn auto export record, ranks 13th globally
Turkey's auto exports hit $41.5 bn in 2025, lifting the country to 13th globally and leading Europe in light‑commercial‑vehicle production.
2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 17 sources
Turkey's Export Outlook Improves While Import Outlook Slips in Q3 2026
Turkey’s Q3 2026 export outlook index rose to 101.5, import outlook slipped to 102.7; minister cites strong exporter confidence and record‑high export volumes.
2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 3 sources
Turkey's Used Car Prices Rise 5% in First Half of 2026
Turkey's used‑car prices rose 0.74% in June 2026 and 5% year‑to‑date, staying below inflation (17.7%) and currency depreciation, pointing to a stable market.
2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 3 sources
Turkey's export demand falls as central bank sees no rate‑cut room
Turkey’s export demand stays weak, trade volume falls 13.9%, and Commerzbank says high core inflation leaves no scope for interest‑rate cuts.
2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
Uludağ Exporter Unions Report June Export Surge
Uludağ Exporter Unions said first‑half 2026 exports rose 5% to $21.8 bn, with June figures up across automotive, textile, clothing and fruit sectors despite global economic and logistical challenges.
2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
Antalya and Yalova post record export growth in 2026
Antalya’s June 2026 exports rose 31% to $188 M, with agriculture making up 62% of total. Yalova’s first‑half 2026 exports hit $815.9 M, up 171%, led by shipbuilding and yacht services.
2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 4 sources
Togg tops 2026 Turkish EV sales as Volkswagen prepares ID. Tiguan electric SUV
Togg led Turkey's 2026 EV sales while Volkswagen readied the ID. Tiguan electric SUV to replace the ID.4, both highlighting a rapidly expanding electric‑car market.
2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 4 sources
Togg Leads Turkish EV Market as New Zero‑Interest Financing Campaign Launches
Togg’s T10X topped June 2026 Turkish EV sales, followed by T10F and KG Mobility; a July 0 % interest, three‑month deferral financing plan aims to accelerate its market lead.
2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 12 sources
Turkey car market contracts 9.8% in H1 2026 as hybrid sales surge
Turkey’s car market fell 9.8% in H1 2026 to 440,234 units; hybrids rose 6% to 33.1% share, EVs held 18.5% despite a dip, while SUVs dominated sales.
2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 4 sources
Turkey's June manufacturing PMI drops to 47.1 as BIST 100 climbs above 14,400
Turkey's June PMI fell to 47.1, reflecting deeper manufacturing contraction, while the BIST 100 rose above 14,400 and Soho Giyim launched a 15 TL per share IPO.
2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 3 sources
Turkey's May trade deficit shrinks as imports drop faster than exports
Turkey's trade deficit narrowed 15.6% YoY to $5.6 bn in May as imports fell 10.8% to $28.1 bn while exports dropped 9.5% to $22.5 bn; Germany led exports, Russia led imports.
2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
Turkey's May Trade Declines as Exports Fall 9.5% and Imports Drop 10.8%
Turkey’s May 2026 trade fell, with exports down 9.5% to $22.46 bn and imports down 10.8% to $28.07 bn; the deficit narrowed to $5.61 bn. In Thrace, Tekirdağ, Kırklareli and Edirne posted modest exports, led by
2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 5 sources
Turkey's May exports fall, Aydın region notes 4.9% dip amid calendar effects
Turkey's May exports dropped 9.5% to $22.5 bn, with Aydın region down 4.9% to $160.6 m; trade deficit narrowed and steel output rose 8.9% to 3.4 mt.
2 months ago

[BUSINESS] 28 sources
Turkey sees higher food poverty line, stable unemployment, May trade down
Turkey’s food poverty line hit 35,758 TL, unemployment stayed at 8.2 % and May exports fell 9.5 % to $22.5 bn, narrowing the trade deficit.
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 5 sources
Turkey's used car market highlights fast‑selling models and buyer checklist
In Turkey, Fiat Egea, Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic lead fast‑selling used cars, while buyers are urged to verify TRAMER records, mileage, paint thickness, chassis numbers and perform cold‑engine checks.
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 8 sources
Turkey's economic confidence climbs as inflation and trade deficit widen
Turkey’s confidence index rose to 98.9 in June, but inflation stays above 30 %, industrial output fell, trade deficit widened and retail sales remain strong.
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
Renault and TOGG launch interest‑free auto financing campaigns in Turkey
Renault and TOGG unveil interest‑free financing for their Turkish models, with Renault offering discounts and a 6‑month credit, and TOGG providing 12‑month zero‑interest loans up to 900,000 TL for the T10F and
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
Togg hits 105,000 users, secures 25% market share and lines up three new EV models for 2027
Togg now serves over 105,000 users, holds about 25 % of Turkey’s EV market and will launch three B‑segment models from mid‑2027 after partnering with CATL’s CAIT.
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 3 sources
Turkey's electric SUV market booms as EV registrations near 450,000
Turkey’s electric SUV sales surge, led by Togg T10X and Tesla Model Y, as EV registrations climb to over 430,000, marking 2.5% of the vehicle fleet.
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 9 sources
Renault Clio named Turkey’s 2026 Car of the Year
Renault Clio was voted Turkey’s 2026 Car of the Year by OGD with 3,360 points, beating BMW iX3 and Togg T10F; other awards went to BMW iX3, Hyundai and TOSFED’s Eren Üçlertoprağı.
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 6 sources
Turkey’s automotive sector ranks 5th in Europe as trade minister launches mobility fund
Turkey’s auto industry is now 5th in Europe and 13th worldwide; trade minister Ömer Bolat launched the OIBVentures Mobility Innovation Fund to boost EV and mobility start‑ups.
3 months ago

[POLITICS] 2 sources
Turkey's public vehicle fleet expands despite savings package
Turkey’s 2024 savings package to cut public vehicle numbers failed; the fleet grew by over 9,000 vehicles and more than 10 billion lira was spent on new purchases, while sales yielded under 100 million lira.
3 months ago

[POLITICS] 11 sources
Turkey's parliament to wipe tax debt on old scrapped vehicles
Turkey's parliament received a proposal by CHP MP Melih Meriç to cancel motor vehicle tax, interest and penalties for 2000‑model or older vehicles unused, uninsured and uninspected for five years, if owners scr
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 7 sources
General Motors re‑enters Turkish market with Cadillac, Chevrolet and GMC lineup
General Motors returned to Turkey via Turoto, offering Cadillac, Chevrolet and GMC models with prices up to 47.5 million TL; taxes stay high despite cuts, and the first batch sold 60‑70 % of units.
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
Turkey vehicle registrations fall in May as Izmir records sharp decline
May vehicle registrations in Turkey fell 24% YoY to 159,623, with Izmir down 18% MoM yet still third in new registrations; electric/hybrid cars now exceed 50% of new car sales.
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 4 sources
Turkey reports construction growth, services decline and vehicle registrations topping 34 million
Turkey's construction index rose 0.7 % while services fell 0.6 %; vehicle registrations in May pushed total road vehicles past 34 million, with cars and motorcycles dominating new registrations.
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
Turkey sees sharp rise in Muğla motorcycle registrations amid overall May vehicle registration decline
In May 2026, Muğla added 1,641 motorcycles, raising its total to 318,554, while Turkey’s overall vehicle registrations fell 24% year‑on‑year, with 159,623 new vehicles recorded.
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
Turkey auto production drops 10% as vehicle tax revenue tops 282 billion lira
Turkey’s auto output fell 10% to 538,718 units Jan‑May 2026, while vehicle ÖTV tax collections rose 11% to over 282 bn lira, with per‑vehicle tax reaching 678 k lira.
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 3 sources
Turkey automotive exports slip 15% to 373,825 units in Jan‑May 2024
Turkey’s automotive production fell 10% to 538,718 units and exports slipped 15% to 373,825 units in Jan‑May 2024, with car exports down 29% and overall export value at $16.6 bn.
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
Turkey's May Export Surge to Ukraine Reaches $656.6 million
Turkey’s May exports to Ukraine rose by $339.6 million to $656.6 million, led by chemicals, electricity/electronics and steel, driven by war‑related reconstruction demand.
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
Fiat launches June zero‑interest credit campaign in Turkey
Fiat’s June Turkey campaign offers zero‑interest credit up to nine months for commercial models and 12‑month financing for passenger cars, including the electric Grande Panda, with down‑payment options as low a
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 3 sources
Turkey's car market cools as used‑vehicle prices dip and electric light‑commercial sales surge
Turkey's used‑car listings fell 1.6% in May as holiday slowdown hit prices, while electric light‑commercial vehicle sales jumped 146% to 1,174 units, capturing 1.2% of the segment.
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
Turkey export index rises, trade balance hits 90.1 in April
Turkey’s April 2026 trade data show export unit‑value index up 13.7% and quantity index up 7.6%, while import quantity fell 7.3%; the external trade balance index rose to 90.1 from 88.2.
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
Turkish automotive exports fall 17% in May while overall export volume rises
Turkey’s automotive exports fell 17% in May to $3.264 bn, yet the sector rose 2.6% Jan‑May to $17 bn; Germany stayed the top market. Provincial data show Çorum’s May export $436 m (‑21%) and five‑month total $2
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
Turkey auto brands roll out zero‑interest June 2026 car financing and price promotions
Renault, Opel, Citroën, Chery, Peugeot, Toyota and others unveiled zero‑interest financing and trade‑in deals for June 2026 in Turkey, with credit limits up to 1 million TL and special pricing on models such as
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
Turkey automotive exports fall 17% in May, total $3.26 bn
Turkey's automotive exports fell 17% in May to $3.26 bn, with passenger cars down 23% and trailers up 13%; Germany remained the top market.
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
Turkey's Export Climate Index climbs to 50.3 in May as Europe weakens, US grows
Turkey's May export climate index rose to 50.3, showing steady demand despite weak European markets and continued US growth; Middle‑East economies posted post‑conflict recovery.
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 3 sources
Peugeot and BYD unveil June 2026 price lists for Turkey
Peugeot and BYD posted June 2026 price lists for their Turkish models, including hybrids, electric cars and campaign prices for multiple variants.
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 3 sources
Turkey's Export Market Climate Shows Limited Improvement in May
Turkey's export climate index rose to 50.3 in May, showing modest improvement as European demand stays weak, Middle‑East recovers, and Bursa's May exports hit $3.39 bn.
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 3 sources
Turkey's Uludağ Exporter Unions report $3.4 billion May export, automotive sector leads
Turkey's Uludağ Exporter Unions reported May exports of $3.389 bn, with automotive at $2.916 bn and a 3 % rise in total exports to $17.738 bn for the first five months of 2026.
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
South Korea and Turkey report falling May auto sales
May auto sales fell in South Korea (4% drop, Kia up) and Turkey (23% drop), highlighting a regional demand slowdown.
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 4 sources
Turkey reports sharp drops in May automotive sales and exports
Turkey saw a 22.5% plunge in May vehicle sales and a 9.3% drop in exports, narrowing the trade deficit to $5.6 bn and raising coverage to 80.1%.
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
US and Turkey auto markets face steep demand drops and rising prices
US and Turkish car markets see sharp demand declines, higher prices and a shift toward SUVs as consumers grapple with tighter finances.
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 3 sources
Turkey's June 2026 Auto Price Lists Reveal Togg and Škoda Pricing
Turkey's June 2026 auto price lists show Togg EVs starting near 1.87 million TL and Škoda offering discounts up to 626,500 TL, with electric models seeing significant cuts.
3 months ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
Renault tops Turkey's May 2026 auto sales as market shrinks
Renault led Turkey's May 2026 auto sales with 10,926 units as the market fell 7.4% YoY; Togg topped EV sales with 3,505 units amid a broader slowdown.
4 months ago

[BUSINESS] 2 sources
Turkey used‑car market sees price rise and highlights risky models
Turkey's April used‑car listings rose to ~912k TL but real prices fell; Renault Clio leads, while 7 models are flagged as costly to maintain.

Sources

61saat.com · aksam.com.tr · aksiyon.com.tr · anadoludabugun.com.tr · ascend.technology · avrupagazete.co.uk · aydinlik.com.tr · aydinses.com · baskentgazete.com.tr · batmanpusula.com · bazaartimes.com · benguturk.com · beyazgazete.com · beyazgundem.com · bizimtv.com.tr · blitzrecruitment.com · bloomberght.com · boldmedya.com · borsagundem.com · borsagundem.com.tr · brevis.hr · bursahaber.com · bursahakimiyet.com.tr · carpages.ca · chinafinanceonline.com · cityresearchonline.co.uk · cnbce.com · contextodedurango.com.mx · corumhaber.net · corumhakimiyet.net · coursematch.com · cumhuriyet.com.tr · dartsnmore.com · diarioelperuano.pe · dicecompany.nl · dokuzeylul.com · donanimhaber.com · doviz.com · dunya.com · egemengazetesi.com · ekonomist.com.tr · ekoturk.com · ekz.ch · enpolitik.com · ensonhaber.com · epochtimestr.com · eurodressage.com · f5haber.com

This summary has been updated 8 times: see revision history